CDE Podcast #006 - Lorenzo Oujeili

00:00:00: the fact that it's not easy, is actually better because he makes you value so much more.

00:00:07: So much more!

00:00:07: Because when you get something easily then kind of give it for granted let say but... But if really struggle?

00:00:17: Then when you got it… You know.. It tastes much much much better.

00:00:23: Hello and welcome to The CDE Podcast.

00:00:26: Today we're speaking with Lorenzo Ugelli.

00:00:28: He's an exterior designer at Volkswagen and the man behind the VW ID.

00:00:33: Everyone concept car.

00:00:35: Hello Lorenzo, how are you today?

00:00:38: I would say it is quite a nice day.

00:00:41: cannot complain

00:00:42: It has

00:00:42: been great!

00:00:43: It's

00:00:43: very nice to chat with you.

00:00:44: You're one of the younger designers that we've spoken across this series interviews And much what will talk about today.

00:00:51: design be useful for young up-and-coming designers and design students, so I'm hoping you're going to have some very useful relevant experience for them.

00:01:00: Just begin at the beginning... Absolutely!

00:01:04: Tell me where your from originally?

00:01:06: And how far back can trace your love of cars and design?

00:01:10: Yeah okay basically i come from Minervania So it's the Italian region.

00:01:19: I came specifically from the province di Ravenna from a very small city but is actually still connected to the car industry because my hometown is called Lugo di Romagna and it's the city which gave Ferrari the pressing horse, something that isn't really well known.

00:01:45: Interesting work about this place... I would say there have been a car lover ever since Ever since.

00:01:53: I think maybe it's kind of a cliche Answer but was the kind of kid, you know that like when I was riding in there carry my mama Was like pointing at every single car on the road and i remember perfectly.

00:02:05: You know The you know the manufacturer.

00:02:06: Do you know?

00:02:07: The model the price the power output And so also always been like fully fully nerd into cars and has be my passion ever Since.

00:02:16: we think is what he makes it good Is dead.

00:02:18: then I've always knew at least the field where i wanted to work, so it was never like looking around for something.

00:02:27: It had to be with cars.

00:02:28: You're absolutely certain from start?

00:02:30: Absolutely!

00:02:30: When you live in proximity to a Ferrari... ...I'm sure it just seeps into your brain.

00:02:35: very early age and when I used to sit on the back of the car.. ..I'd have a booster seat to help me sit taller And my mum said that she doesn't need this anymore.

00:02:44: I was like no, i want to keep it because then I can see the wheels of the cars.

00:02:47: They need to see what different wheels or the car is going on.

00:02:49: so yeah... So yes

00:02:51: you're a tuning stance guy?

00:02:53: Big stance guy when I was two years old!

00:02:55: Yeah exactly um do you remember some cars that you really loved growing up?

00:03:01: Do you remember one of the first cars that your were like?

00:03:03: wow.. That's incredible.

00:03:06: Yes actually before I was really into more professional and more detail about cars.

00:03:14: I remember as a kid that i was watching at some magazines, And uh...I actually wasn't aware of the car which were interesting to me.

00:03:23: they are concert cars!

00:03:25: Which is weird in the end because..because I remembered being amazed looking this pinnifarina concept.

00:03:31: it's called Pinnifarina Rossa which is a speedster Ferrari designed by Ken Kuyama And I was looking at this car as a kid and it's like, oh my god.

00:03:39: This thing is insane!

00:03:42: Then i also wondered why can't we buy these things?

00:03:51: There were other cars which are still in this period that I remember fondly Which was Corvette Stingray concept from Giugiaro.

00:04:05: It was like a blue concert car with this glass canopy.

00:04:09: I think

00:04:09: i remember, yeah

00:04:11: So yeah me really talking about some time ago.

00:04:14: but Yeah This made me thinks is the beginning.

00:04:17: you know that I liked concert car and then of course when you grow older than also.

00:04:22: You start to be a bit more nerdy you know, like in terms of the cars which you like and so on.

00:04:30: And then you experience some cars like real life... ...and when you start to appreciate driving or something kind of switched also more into the driving than later.

00:04:39: through some friends they made me experience You know?

00:04:42: The British cars Which then it became my biggest passion for work.

00:04:47: So I experienced K-Trams and Nobles and Lotus and so On.

00:04:53: Okay!

00:04:53: Like this.

00:04:55: So yeah, like I was starting to love concert car.

00:04:59: Then it became okay, I'm a lightweight cars addicted but design wise have always been appreciated.

00:05:06: concert car in general the research of beauty and almost of course catching since i was a kid absolutely all the time It's

00:05:14: unrestricted design.

00:05:15: isn't that what's appealing about concept cars?

00:05:18: I just thought of this when you said it, but when you're really young and you fall in love with cars.

00:05:22: It's really just aesthetics right?

00:05:23: You don't know what is like to drive.

00:05:25: so... Exactly Just What Does It Look Like?

00:05:26: That's our first way that we experience cars.

00:05:29: Yes And then you start driving Then you start factoring other things and think about them In a slightly different way But When you'll Fall in Love With Cars as A Kid Is About What Looks Cool What Looks Interesting?

00:05:38: Yeah interesting.

00:05:39: So where did you study?

00:05:40: Where Did You Study & What Did You study?

00:05:42: I was studying Graphic Design.

00:05:46: Then through an internship, I realized that it wasn't what i wanted to do.

00:05:51: Uh then It came into my mind.

00:05:55: you know To try to connect like What?

00:05:57: I want to do so has to be cars actually liked to draw car design.

00:06:04: Then he started and then I started.

00:06:06: You don't have a look at the possible school to try to convince of course The parents because is not maybe the typical safe career choice Which apparent expect?

00:06:14: Because Maybe Do you think more that do like law school, medical schools these kind of things?

00:06:20: It's quite tricky also to try and convince it something which is so emotional.

00:06:24: but maybe You'll have a high ratio High failure ratio Because we must be honest as well It comes with risks.

00:06:33: But yeah I was studying in Moderna There this cool piece called Istituto Superiore di Schenzo dell'Automobile And there were two years two years diploma, which actually gave me the like a head start.

00:06:50: I mean to try to apply... To do some internships?

00:06:53: To participate in some competitions.

00:06:55: so then it started with that

00:06:59: and here you are!

00:07:00: It's so interesting to hear all the different routes into this industry because i've spoken to designers who went straight into a design course.

00:07:07: That was their first thing.

00:07:08: they did was car design Because of course there are specific courses for them.

00:07:12: now There's plenty of designers like yourself who started in a different kind of art and then found their way into it.

00:07:18: When I spoke to Harm, the legendary Porsche designer he had no formal education And one day He just went to the Porsche factory and left his portfolio by the gate.

00:07:27: Yeah So that was...I did not really liked that any more unfortunately Absolutely

00:07:30: No.

00:07:30: What

00:07:31: were

00:07:31: your first times?

00:07:32: Simple at times.

00:07:33: exactly what is you're first job In industry where are able call yourself car designer?

00:07:37: You basically start off course To apply I mean, two various internships.

00:07:43: And they managed to get the first one in Pininfarina which was a really great experience.

00:07:47: so it was feeling like a dream especially because you know... It's legendary coach builder always connected also with Ferrari design and so on.

00:07:57: So he would be like oh my god!

00:07:59: You know?

00:07:59: Like..I'm really in a legendary place so i've been working there.

00:08:04: I had an opportunity of Simeclaren Also getting used to start to travel and to leave home, so you know I mean moving for to Torino then move into walking.

00:08:16: And then uh i went to Munich.

00:08:19: yeah because then I found this job opportunity with his um Italian supplier company.

00:08:29: Uh...and yeah maybe basically we started it like working on details.

00:08:37: It was for Audi With an external contract, of course.

00:08:41: So yeah like I was doing some proposal for like reams and details and so on My true passion through love.

00:08:48: Of course it wasn't a bit more about doing the full exterior.

00:08:54: But then something crazy happened Because basically while i was there There were Internal requests to make some proposals For golf because this company is there, it was related also a lot with Volkswagen Group and Walter De Silva.

00:09:16: So yeah being Munich a branch of the company I actually got an opportunity to be picked by Mr.

00:09:25: De Silva To be sent into this Braunschweig studio.

00:09:29: so we are talking already close to Wolfsburg.

00:09:33: So, yeah.

00:09:34: And it was actually like a crazy timing because I remember that from Munich... ...I was supposed to be moving to Ingolstadt to a newly opened supplier office.

00:09:47: so then of course we're starting look for flat and travel through Munich by train to go visit the flat.

00:10:01: for some of the listeners, if they know finding an apartment in Germany is quite a tough journey.

00:10:08: So yeah once I finally found place and was about to go to Christmas holiday then actually got a call And i've been asked so do you really want to do exterior?

00:10:18: Because If You Want To Do Exterior At the beginning of year after Christmas, instead you go to Brunswick because Mr.

00:10:25: De Silva liked your stuff and he was asking me if I could be there.

00:10:27: so it's like oh my god!

00:10:29: So of course i cancelled everything yeah... And then uh.. It really was an unexpected trip.

00:10:37: A

00:10:37: fast jump?

00:10:38: Absolutely a fast jump.

00:10:39: but I thought ok this is just my dream.

00:10:42: I have the opportunity for one of legends that says come on its no brainer.

00:10:48: And of course at that age, I mean you accept everything like who cares if it's uncomfortable to move and jump around.

00:10:52: You really want a fulfilled your dream.

00:10:55: So yeah It just went.

00:10:56: and then he was an amazing experience.

00:10:58: than i was there one year-and-a-half we worked A lot on some folks fucking group projects Really really fun times.

00:11:08: Yeah, I'm in We've been working with some crazy project and Then uh... I've been moved then to Pininfarina, still with the supplier.

00:11:24: Then Pininfarina also.

00:11:27: basically they remembered about me because of my very first internship and Of course like it was suppliers.

00:11:34: So iIwas also curious and keen you know To make their career step into try to have a direct contract as well.

00:11:42: And Also Like A Funny Story Is That The Moment I Arrived There Of course, I was pushing like crazy.

00:11:49: You know?

00:11:50: And really wanted to prove that it's good.

00:11:54: and after two months... ...I got a job offer to join Pininfarina directly.

00:12:00: Funny story the first day of contract is my birthday!

00:12:04: So then there were signs.

00:12:07: Nice!

00:12:09: Then we stayed in Pininfarina for roughly four years or even half which again had been very nice time.

00:12:16: I'm really happy because it was a very nice school.

00:12:19: I met some of the greatest legendary designers as well, people which designed like you know... Some timeless Ferraris or some timeless Pininfarina concert cars.

00:12:29: so they really taught me how to build good connections through friendships that are long-standing today still.

00:12:38: Yeah we're really nice!

00:12:40: Actually i was lucky enough working on a couple of showcars there.

00:12:45: So like a first highlight, which was really unbelievable for me.

00:12:49: It was to extend the Geneva Motor Show together with media and seeing my full exterior of our Galuing Supercoupe Chocar it's called Hybrid Kinetic GT concept being unveiled live And he is like oh my god this is really happening.

00:13:10: I mean i was dreaming and traveling through Europe like crazy trying to fulfill My dream.

00:13:17: and here I am.

00:13:18: Thinking back to you being a very young boy, seeing that pin-in for Inna concept in the magazine... And it's sort of sparking something kind of weird thing.

00:13:25: but maybe some young boys saw your one with the same things about what happened against?

00:13:29: Yes!

00:13:30: It was really crazy to see like You know what is nice actually?

00:13:38: The nicest thing at this moment where i was placing the Pinifarina badge on my car Because there was a colleague, he was like giving me the best.

00:13:45: Like this is your moment?

00:13:47: You know, appreciate because it's very rare.

00:13:50: Yeah yeah.

00:13:51: Play the pinnifarina bass with your answer on Defender of a coach build super coupé.

00:13:58: It's like wow.

00:13:59: now it's official.

00:14:02: Speaking of concept cars.

00:14:03: Yes Very special concept car downstairs from us at that moment Which I think you're very proud and its ID everyone.

00:14:10: yes This massively important car for VW.

00:14:15: Talk me through what the design brief was in first place?

00:14:17: Yeah,

00:14:18: yeah.

00:14:18: so... The design briefing let's say it wasn't the easiest of them all because like the name says when you try to do a car which can suit if possible everyone It is quite tough job that we are trying to tackle this subject by looking at various I would say customer targets.

00:14:43: So, you know we were really trying to find a way to find like a package To create the car with small and compact footprint but flexible enough to be able to be enjoyed and used by Really.

00:15:00: when we talk about age?

00:15:01: We can be saying from Eighteen to eight years old.

00:15:04: so it could.

00:15:06: i mean It should be like the car your first car.

00:15:11: It can be the first car from like, I mean you're son or daughter.

00:15:17: it could might we.

00:15:17: uh he could be as well like a car for like a to-be business.

00:15:24: it can be like a delivery vehicle...it can fit in normal commuter situation..or maybe even the car of your grandpa.

00:15:33: absolutely

00:15:34: because there needs.

00:15:37: And I think he's actually bringing the main values of the brand because Volkswagen is people car.

00:15:45: So we're

00:15:46: doing that.

00:15:47: Volkswagen, let me say so.

00:15:49: it's a privilege to be able work on such project as like you know most important projects for our Volkswagen?

00:15:57: Most definitely its thing.

00:15:58: VW does best in my opinion.

00:16:00: but As a designer, when I think about this design brief you've got... It has to work for everyone.

00:16:05: Number one and number two it has be very affordable.

00:16:07: at the end these feel like quite restricting things to work with as a designer.

00:16:13: so how do you?

00:16:14: And actually The End result is a very charismatic piece of design in my opinion really exciting interesting little car.

00:16:22: How do find ways to be playful and express yourself as a Designer When You're Still Working With Quite specific Brief Like That?

00:16:31: Yeah, I mean first of all we're trying to work a lot with the character in car.

00:16:37: Which means that like for this specific car... We were trying to bring emotions and charisma especially through lights because you really try give these kind human touch or human feeling.

00:16:56: but then as well when want talk about budget situation Of course, it's something which you should consider as a designer since the beginning.

00:17:06: Since day one... The briefing also from Andreas Mint was this car has to be an entry-car.

00:17:14: so we should think about designing a car that is cheap to build.

00:17:19: It may have already been conceived since Day One To put together with maybe less panels and less pieces.

00:17:30: Let's design it in that way and not try to make maybe a car with, I don't know many applied extra decoration details which then may be because of budget are going to be left behind.

00:17:42: So let's start from the beginning like this Which is actually what has been giving us so far.

00:17:51: The project of course isn't going To go for production version which really close Because you cannot simplify more than what we see.

00:17:59: Absolutely.

00:18:00: Yeah, I can imagine one of the most frustrating parts of being a designer is making something you're really proud.

00:18:05: Of.

00:18:05: and yeah The engineers say no And then the money guys saying oh and then the end product looks a lot different.

00:18:10: But yeah actually there is responsibility on design.

00:18:13: It's think forward when they are creating this thing make sure that it made in A way That Is Practical Can be achieved and clearly what we've done with our car for me big part of ID everyone an ID tool is connection to the past.

00:18:29: I think it's generally understood at VW that the first wave of the ID card, the ID three and like really impressive cars technically but from a design standpoint perhaps just didn't connect with people in the same way.

00:18:40: And i get the impression that you've made a really deliberate effort to connect this car To The Past Of VW.

00:18:47: so how do You Do That Without Just Making Something That'S A Remake?

00:18:52: Yeah actually This Is What We Tryed To Do... ...and is Really Nice To Hear Also From You that you're not talking about deliberate quoting because this is what it is in the end, let me say its kind of a great estates but it's not literal at all.

00:19:07: Because we just took the philosophy and cues which doesn't mean to copy their line.

00:19:12: It's like when you look for specific parts or back or some other areas You feel connection but actually different.

00:19:20: so still down with modern twist.

00:19:23: For example if I look on front We kind of Combined together two cars because we have first of all a modern reinterpretation Of the golf mark one which is a super iconic face clearly recognizable as a VW Which is also something, which helped us to go away To this maybe too common nowadays.

00:19:44: face you know with single straight bar connecting side-to-side.

00:19:47: Because what makes a vw?

00:19:49: Is the fact that the lights are like completely on the same line with the logo.

00:19:54: We have this and the black frame, what makes it Volkswagen specifically more like the Golf One.

00:20:01: The fact that we have lower parts of the headlights lower than a mask so gives us lots of character differentiates car from.

00:20:13: you know the mass make it clearly recognizable as VW but kind off lost my internal thoughts.

00:20:20: let me say going back to your car We also use the golf mark four because the Golf Mark IV had this headlight shape which was kind of around a rectangle, let me say.

00:20:33: So we integrated these two shapes together.

00:20:37: so again it doesn't look literally neither like the Mark IV nor the Mark I but you have some sprinkle here and there.

00:20:46: Exactly that!

00:20:48: Just

00:20:48: a sprinkler in there?

00:20:49: It's

00:20:49: just a sprinkle.

00:20:50: if your car nerd is looking at my concept then i can go up.

00:20:55: That's a little bit Mark I. What i find so interesting is normal people who are not crazy about cars, they kind of understand it subconsciously like yeah...I really think that's an interesting thing.

00:21:07: now you would think to most people doesn't matter if the new VW has connection with old VW but actually does!

00:21:16: It just needs look right.

00:21:18: these things make it looks right for everyone even people don't know cars or car design.

00:21:23: And this is actually something which we've seen happening, you know through like the live reveal.

00:21:29: Through media days and so on.

00:21:31: that really... This is a kind of feedback which we got many times That people are telling us this looks real VW.

00:21:42: I'm really reconnected with a VW even though they don't know clearly why.

00:21:49: So the feeling of the mark there And actually, I mean if we want to bring a big name on the table again which happened yesterday.

00:21:59: Mr.

00:21:59: De Silva himself so you know legendary Volkswagen designer who was in charge of the app as well Which is my personal favorite modern Volkswagen.

00:22:13: So it's still fine and timeless.

00:22:14: It was clearly my inspiration especially for the rear-of-the car.

00:22:18: He came to visit us Just to see this car because it was so curious.

00:22:22: You see a reality.

00:22:24: And I mean is they gave me goosebumps Because the first thing he told me you put that on my shoulder.

00:22:29: He said Bravo, you guys made a real Volkswagen.

00:22:32: Wow What more can you do?

00:22:34: Yeah

00:22:34: That's the sale of approval.

00:22:36: really i mean uh yeah unbelievable Unbelievable.

00:22:41: So yeah When the man tells you It is a Volkswagen They're like okay.

00:22:46: then I think as a team we make good job all together Could be worse too.

00:22:50: Something right, I think the Ups are my favourite VW designs from last few years as well.

00:22:56: and that concept of just getting most possible space out a small footprint you know it's difficult to make look good.

00:23:03: You end up with box on wheels when your focusing on spaciousness but of course have advantage working with bespoke architecture which is kind of freeing.

00:23:13: As designer can package however see fit

00:23:17: Kind of let's say that is not maybe so free as people think because sometimes you have even this kind of me This these kinds of misconception like I don't know.

00:23:27: It's an electric car.

00:23:28: Therefore it doesn't need air and cooling or some which is complete wrong because in the end You still need to.

00:23:34: I mean, you see need to have like a cooling packs on yeah And

00:23:38: crash protection and all that

00:23:39: exactly.

00:23:41: but In the end what?

00:23:43: what this kind of platform is allowing you, which it's helping as a designer.

00:23:47: Is that we tend to have like these longer wheelbase wider track because of course when you accommodate the skateboard platform or the battery.

00:23:55: so they are already giving us a car with seats nicely planted Which gives them shorter overhangs.

00:24:03: wheels in the corner wheels tend be bigger.

00:24:07: So actually What were focusing also?

00:24:10: You know within your design director It was The main pillar is to make cars look stable.

00:24:17: We really want focus on the stands as well, so this platform is actually supporting us

00:24:22: and also... It's a thing that

00:24:24: can

00:24:24: be ruined in great design right?

00:24:27: Just when the stance isn't wrong with wheels aren't quite good enough yet which must be frustrating.

00:24:31: Yes I mean it's all about proportion of stands because even for like students point-of-view they should teach at school And usually do is that the most important thing, it's their proportion.

00:24:47: You have proportion then you have surface treatment features and then your detail.

00:24:52: but to need a good base because if I mean... If we don't have a good bass..

00:24:58: It does!

00:24:58: Its'a lovely chunky little things.

00:25:00: everybody really is.

00:25:01: Yeah yeah yeah

00:25:02: I'm really excited see how that project develops.

00:25:05: i am looking forward seeing production version.

00:25:07: hope its as similar.

00:25:12: Final thing,

00:25:13: let me know.

00:25:14: As I said you're one of the younger designers that we've interviewed during this series.

00:25:17: You've had an amazing career already.

00:25:19: Um i'm interested in.

00:25:20: what advice do you share with young designers design students when they ask?

00:25:25: How to get where you are?

00:25:27: well What was the thing that you like to tell young designers?

00:25:29: uh?

00:25:29: I

00:25:31: hope is not an overdone reply But I would definitely say be stubborn and be passionate.

00:25:37: because Because something which I didn't mention before, which was quite important also is that it wasn't easy.

00:25:45: It really wasn't because actually from my second internship to the final internship which landed me a job... ...I've been unemployed for a year and this time has been very tough when you see your peers, your colleagues finding a job and going to work at the factory.

00:26:06: I'm going to walk like in low studio and so on but... But you are stubborn because this is what i want do no matter if i get closed doors constantly?

00:26:20: I kept doing that!

00:26:22: And..and am really happy that i did it Because otherwise easy way out would have been okay.

00:26:29: this doesn't work.

00:26:31: i will look for another job and then maybe this becomes a hobby.

00:26:34: but it wasn't how to say.

00:26:36: I never considered this.

00:26:38: so actually was a really tough moment where I remember that I was pushing like crazy at home working alone, working until two am criticizing my own stuff redoing Being my boss, let's say.

00:26:55: You know I was criticizing myself for doing it again and again then sending Again the contacting people all link.

00:27:01: they no mail.

00:27:02: ask around.

00:27:03: try to network as you Say.

00:27:05: No now we're not hiring noise Not good enough?

00:27:07: No, no until yes is nice But you need to try.

00:27:13: And i really feel also like a tough moment nowadays For industry.

00:27:16: but you need To be stubborn because if you keep on Doing that eventually will work.

00:27:23: That's my belief and it is not easy.

00:27:25: And in the end, also if I can add The fact that its' not easy It actually better Because he makes you evaluate so much more.

00:27:35: So much more because When you get something easily then You kind of give for granted let say but when you really struggle Then when you get it ,it tastes much much much better Really worth it.

00:27:53: Lorenzo, thank you very much for your time.

00:27:55: Thanks

00:28:00: to you!