00:00:00: Don't remain a nerd.

00:00:01: Enjoy life, you know?

00:00:03: There is more to designers' lives than just being a car nerd because that's what an chief designer ultimately looks for – A mature person who comes into your

00:00:13: team.

00:00:15: Hello and welcome

00:00:16: to the CDE

00:00:17: Podcast.

00:00:18: Today we're talking with Achim Anscheidt.

00:00:21: He is the former head of design

00:00:23: at Bugatti.

00:00:30: Thank you so much for joining us.

00:00:32: You gave a wonderful presentation just this morning on the history of Bugatti, which was absolutely spellbinding.

00:00:37: We're going to talk about bugatti and your career in a moment But I'm gonna start each of these interviews by asking all our guests The same handful of questions Which are specifically Hopefully get some interesting answers For design students that might be listening To these podcasts.

00:00:49: So first thing's first Where are you from originally?

00:00:52: And how far back can you trace Your passion for cars and design?

00:00:57: I am born originally In Stuttgart or in the Stuttgart area.

00:01:02: And I grew up being my dad's kid, meaning my Dad was a motorcycle racer in the sixties and i grew up in the pit lane of Spa-Francochamps Montza Nürburgring.

00:01:17: so this was my upbringing and then in my teenage years i discovered a passion also for drawing and perspective.

00:01:24: specifically I might be able to combine those two things.

00:01:33: To a profession, you know there are actually people making money on that pleasure.

00:01:38: and then i was sold!

00:01:41: I believe you spent most of your twenties as a motorcycle acrobat?

00:01:46: How do you know

00:01:46: this?!

00:01:47: I've done some googling so... That's extraordinary.

00:01:50: it's an incredible career You know, I think a lot of people feel like especially with quite vocational career design.

00:01:56: you have to go straight into it or its too late.

00:01:58: Do you feel that in some ways you benefited from coming later on in life relatively speaking?

00:02:04: Yes before i lose focus on that is actually still believe today and don't necessarily no matter what the talent this one ever designer.

00:02:14: in my team there's only nineteen years old even if he's hot shot.

00:02:19: I want to design joining my team.

00:02:21: that is, of course a hot shot if you want to say so but has seen the world and has understood how certain things and principles work in life.

00:02:31: And it has tried with a lot of things and had a lot because my French fuck ups as well which you need You know In design and then live as well To learn to gain experience?

00:02:41: I think That's a designer.

00:02:42: them they can start identifying also With the nature of our clients.

00:02:49: It was similar Me, don't worry I had my major fuck ups as well in life.

00:02:56: You have to beep that out i'm afraid but being... My father was a motorcycle racer and I grew up in trials riding when I was ten eleven years old And did it as sport until eighteen nineteen.

00:03:12: When we were about decide what really wanna study I was asked to perform that sport on various occasions.

00:03:21: I think Doug Lemkin performed it very much in a similar way, but of course it was thirty years ago for me or more... more than thirty-five years ago, so that it became a profession every weekend.

00:03:37: I would go to different places with an opening or Tyler dealer and Yamaha dealer And i'd perform there as trials rider.

00:03:45: It was really something that allowed me also do finance my studies From the age of twenty until twenty seven.

00:03:53: But in winter time... ...I always studied at the Pforzheim University until I met the chief designer of Porsche at that time, and we had an instant connection.

00:04:05: And he also was a trials rider.

00:04:07: He was fascinated by that sport.

00:04:10: so if you first talked for one hour about motorcycles then we'd talk about cars.

00:04:15: Then he allowed me to go to Arts Center College of Design get a scholarship from Porsche and return to Porsche as my first job which is total honour in those days to see Weissach from the inside.

00:04:28: Absolutely, and a passion for motorcycles was the thing that brought you in harm together.

00:04:33: initially I had the privilege of interviewing him earlier this year at The Other event.

00:04:37: he's such an interesting guy i'm sure i heard a rumor That there... Was it the Porsche nine two eight?

00:04:42: The v-eight front engine model?

00:04:44: You could fit It with a tow bar.

00:04:45: There is an option From the factory And apparently the reason For that Is because He used to tow his race car around.

00:04:52: So he made Sure traveling and trying other things, just being a more well-rounded person.

00:05:01: And having more to then bring.

00:05:02: not just design but you know... Being someone that people want work with

00:05:07: Especially for the brand like Bugatti You know I'm no bugatti client Constantly i meet people who say are you driving a Bugatti?

00:05:18: Did u get company car or...?

00:05:21: I was just an employee So all designers of my team were at time.

00:05:28: But you still have to be able put yourself into the mindset, spirit and character of those clients... ...and mature enough for them.

00:05:39: And not just consider themselves as a nouveau riche-cleantel cliché but really focus on what does this person do?

00:05:49: Where are their passions for motoring coming from?

00:05:53: And you would be surprised how different Bugatti clients are no matter where their wealth of independence comes from.

00:06:01: Well, let's talk a bit about Bugatti because as I mentioned, he gave wonderful presentation on the history of The Brand this morning.

00:06:08: and your Bugatti geek...I hope don't mind me saying it is obvious that as a former head of design there You'd be passionate interested in the history but really It was evident deeply interested and extremely educated in the history of this brand.

00:06:25: Now that you've stepped away from the company after a long spell there, have you had a chance to kind of reflect on your time?

00:06:30: And sort of realize that you contributed very successful chapter into these incredible brands stories... That kind of sunk-in now?

00:06:51: for the design development.

00:06:54: In regards to the link to history, there is very often a saying that The better you understand the past and the history ,the longer You can look into the future And especially at Bugatti.

00:07:08: That's very true!

00:07:11: The inner heritage of Bugatti Is the artistic family Bugatti.

00:07:16: It always was an Ettore Bugatti being such A different character from from a Enzo Ferrari, from the W.O.

00:07:23: Bentley From a Ferdinand Porsche.

00:07:25: Just how he saw his life His passion and company Things had to be the way Mr Bugatti wanted it or did not happen at all.

00:07:38: Therefore It still Had the spirit of Bugatti in pre-war times that we need to relive today as well.

00:07:49: Bugatti is the opposite of mass production, really.

00:07:52: And it doesn't help us to look over the fence and see what Ferrari's doing because we should not be compared to Ferrari – We are in our own little cosmos!

00:08:03: The program that Bugatti just launched with a solitaire one-off... Coach Building Cars program, which was just introduced in Pebble Beach shows that very much.

00:08:16: We take care if necessary of one client with one car developing one car for the person or family and that reflects Bugatti's value pre-war as well as modern day Bugatti and in future.

00:08:37: So when you have all this rich history and heritage to draw on as a designer, how do you then balance that with bringing your own stuff?

00:08:44: To the design being something fresh in new and specific too.

00:08:47: You because it must be very daunting to change anything With a brand like that.

00:08:53: That's a very good point that you bring up because it's easy to fall into the trap of retro design.

00:08:58: Look at the type-thirty five and many, many students that thought about the future of Bugatti.

00:09:04: And thinking about it... ...and then thinking there should be a reincarnation for Type-Thirty Five!

00:09:11: Then you end up with kind of retro fuselage thing.

00:09:18: Then it's more interesting to consider what was a Type-Thirty five in its day.

00:09:21: In the twenties, Was he ultimate race car that everybody wanted and needed?

00:09:25: To have so the interpretation of a modern date type thirty-five is actually A racecar So to say or a race car That eventually on normal person could also drive in a very extreme way.

00:09:38: Anyway, a bullied is that interpretation the Bugatti bullied.

00:09:43: so considering The heritage of Bugatti should not trap you into further evolutions off your brand.

00:09:55: Then it becomes way more important, where is the next step?

00:09:58: Where do I need to go?

00:10:00: Are we on a linear path with the brand or do we need to break

00:10:03: away?".

00:10:04: I would for example say that Tourbillon has been an evolution of an icon – no?

00:10:10: The Verois' and Chiron's are icons but the Tourbillion needs and not just doing something different for the sake of, oh I'm a new hotshot designer.

00:10:21: And it needs to look like this because styling wise i feel there's no.

00:10:26: actually hand signature on one design is not important enough as overall value of brand or product.

00:10:35: The value comes from within what means to produce engine, drivetrain, production quality approach and not just a single line from the designer because the ego wants to handle it that way.

00:10:51: That is relatively, excuse my French cheap in their term.

00:10:57: so evolution there on our side really represents the brand as important but I can also tell you sometimes its importance break away or free of them.

00:11:07: for example with interior development.

00:11:10: It cannot be that we follow the digital trend on interiors, because everybody else is doing this.

00:11:16: And I wonder how it looks like in thirty years down the road these enormous plastic panels all through the car?

00:11:23: Will they still able to start up...I know you have to do this and venture into this if your a volume seller.

00:11:31: No doubt about it.

00:11:33: But as Bugatti, this needs to be an authentic car.

00:11:36: fifty years down the road sitting on the lawn of Pebble Beach being authentic and valuable And also the members your family that will inherit that Bugatti Will have to use or appreciate a car and be fascinated by in this case A digital detox we see.

00:11:56: Well, I'm

00:11:58: very appreciative of the digital detox.

00:12:01: Is it something that you would like to see on just across-the-car industry?

00:12:05: On smaller more affordable vehicles as well?

00:12:07: or do feel this is way things are going and inevitably its gonna be more digital less tactile?

00:12:14: No...I don't think for every brand.

00:12:19: I think Bugatti can have a solitary viewpoint there Or is allowed to have a solitary view point.

00:12:29: I would appreciate that physical buttons are actually returning a little bit into interiors, but the approach of digital progress needs to be reflected in cars for volume sellers.

00:12:42: For sure even Ferrari is a volume seller and our terms so-to say or Aston Martin.

00:12:51: So i think it's right path for Bugatti.

00:13:01: You know, I feel what the watchmaking industry in the seventies eighties with quads watches.

00:13:08: It sparked a moment for the industry of mechanical watches and it made people aware how beautiful mechanical watches are.

00:13:17: The victory for digital watches like the Apple Watch is certain.

00:13:21: the victory for fully electrified cars In the midterm future is certain.

00:13:28: But if you reflect on the watch development of the eighties, The Quartz Moment has brought mechanical watches back to life and appreciation for that.

00:13:42: Bugatti is a little bit in way comparable maybe to Patek Philippe or Parmigiani.

00:13:52: If you would ask Patek Philippe to do a quartz watch, it'd feel awkward.

00:13:57: You appreciate the business that they are in for the fascination of mechanical watches?

00:14:05: And one hopes... That same way as you've just described there will be place for exquisite high-end combustion cars in an electric future.

00:14:14: I certainly hope

00:14:16: so.

00:14:17: But is good that you have CEO with Marty Riematz who I admire for the bravery to develop together with shareholders a concept where you design a new V-seq XVI naturally aspirated engine.

00:14:38: So it brings all the emotion of this kind of engine as a Saugmotor, naturally aspirate also the noise or so the refs are up to nine thousand five hundred rpm replacing the turbos with battery pack.

00:14:53: Therefore, you get way more freedom how to do the packaging and be brave enough in this day-and-age.

00:15:01: It takes guts and glory.

00:15:03: it takes understanding of how to bring shareholders for an idea on board.

00:15:08: therefore I will forever grateful to Maatari Mats who is such a kind person with that knowledge as well being such a likable chap at the end

00:15:21: Absolutely.

00:15:21: I didn't expect many people to be engineering new V-sixteens in the twenty twenties, very grateful for that.

00:15:29: So Veron was the first project you were involved with wheels.

00:15:32: we're already turning on that project.

00:15:34: by the time they joined Bugatti and mentioned an astonishing line up of designers who worked on that car then went onto basically run the car industry.

00:15:44: baby, as I understand it.

00:15:45: That was the first one that you got to start from the very beginning and he said something interesting in your presentation earlier about having a healthier relationship with the engineers for that project?

00:15:55: Could you speak to that little bit because... From the outside is a journalist!

00:15:59: I imagine development of car has like an argument between designers, finance guys, engineers eventually come to compromise But I guess it's much better off when not an argument.

00:16:11: It is a collaboration, especially with such engineering.

00:16:14: forward vehicle like any Bugatti is Is important as great designer?

00:16:19: Not only to be creative and imaginative but also have these good working relationships for the other departments.

00:16:27: Almost two or three questions in one here As we are speaking of younger audience and design audience... ...it is essential that i do connect And have a good and healthy relationship with not only my CEO, but also the chief of development.

00:16:45: The chief marketing officer.

00:16:48: best is if you can ever be here in the evening with those guys to be certain about the targets where your company needs to go?

00:16:57: They understand what they need as designers for their proportions and what is essential to achieve those goals in design, but also understanding what are their goals.

00:17:11: In terms of monetary turnaround and delivering sustainable products with a fascination... ...and responsible product for achievement development you know?

00:17:24: A lot people think that the natural enemy of the designer's secret is they're not!

00:17:30: And that brings me to the point of Vero development, Shiro development and then Tobio development because the Vero and the Shiro are almost pretty much same car.

00:17:41: Same power plan, same package, same monocoque... ...and same problems have the Varo had in its time which is mostly thermal management.

00:17:55: The Tobio has a completely new car.

00:17:57: So that was the more exciting and bigger challenge for me, also a big challenge to my team.

00:18:02: Going back to Vero to Chiron... The Vero was developed in that way where Ferdinand Pirch called shots what cars should be capable of doing.

00:18:13: A thousand horsepower faster than four hundred.

00:18:17: incredibly difficult to achieve.

00:18:19: Take you to the opera in the evening?

00:18:20: First car over a million as well, wonderful.

00:18:23: and take it to the Opera on the very end.

00:18:26: so The Ultimate GT actually not the racecar for the road.

00:18:31: And at the same time Hartmut Varkus is head of Volkswagen Group Development having such good connection with Mr Piersch And being able to insist on that this car needs to go into production exactly as it is.

00:18:45: That's why, also amongst other things took seven years... ...to develop the car into production and not just a usual three-and-a-half or four years.

00:18:54: But that resulted in enormous thermodynamic problems with the first.

00:19:00: prototypes were constantly burning catching fire.

00:19:06: And there's a reason why when you take the skin away from Vera underneath, it looks like development of Apollo XI really so intense.

00:19:16: So many components in their if he would drop one Europe piece on top and not fall out at bottom which is very different for classic mid-engine Ferrari layout let say.

00:19:32: Those problems became so severe when Ferdinand Pirch then demanded an increase of fifty percent power, going from a thousand horsepower to one-thousand five hundred with the intermediate step of the Supersport.

00:19:47: With twelve hundred horsepower.

00:19:53: and I also had my reservations just to re-style.

00:19:56: an icon like the Veron for styling sake has to be new model.

00:20:01: it's different.

00:20:03: but what is best way than go that next step?

00:20:07: Without me feeling, I'm superimposing my personal styling line on this.

00:20:12: Going back to the subject that we just talked about and The most authentic way was to look at the actual problems That the Vera has in terms of thermal management or head.

00:20:23: you know it took so much too ironed out And open the shiro development up To be very purpose-driven In those areas.

00:20:34: i give you one example The the sea line that you have on the chiron looks like a styling line from uh, From a designer.

00:20:42: Oh I want to have a line like this and do it like this?

00:20:44: no It's actually the opposite is the case.

00:20:47: the upper area where the air goes around the cabin Is the most precious area?

00:20:54: On the whole body side section of the verand And The upper air that passes by the B-pillar, this is the highest pressure we find in these areas.

00:21:05: Not a lower area infront of the rear wheel but it's very turbulent and almost no air goes into relatively big holes than the Véran has.

00:21:15: The upper was really precious which is why I combined the Bugatti line with one so you can access everywhere along those lines.

00:21:26: This for me an authentic example of developing win-win situations with engineering plus.

00:21:34: I had people and have people on my board And in the team like with Frank Heil, my successor now at Bugatti Very much a person that can think.

00:21:44: first of all he can sketch Like a plotter freehand.

00:21:47: you should see his sketchbooks.

00:21:48: That's just wonderful.

00:21:50: Then he sits down with engineers and his brain is also very engineering focused, where does performance come from?

00:21:57: How to reduce drag but still create more downforce.

00:22:01: All these things you can sit down with engineers.

00:22:05: Yes!

00:22:05: You have to prove the engineers that you know something about this and I'm fascinated by my motorsport history With My Dad allowed me be fascinated by Formula One and technical development of Formula one And in this case Frank was on those crucial members.

00:22:21: develop that skill to sit down with the engineers and find win-win combinations.

00:22:26: As a designer, you do not always have that privilege.

00:22:30: if we work for mass volume manufacturer let's say Ford or so... You don't always have a chance to influence the package.

00:22:38: there are many constraints in the very end budget constraints but at Bugatti it is almost your duty because we only have one core car, one icon to develop.

00:22:53: It needs to be so thorough.

00:22:55: you need to sit down with the chief of development in this case Emilio Chalvo for The Tourbillon and find that connection and shoulder alignment through the whole program.

00:23:06: That is key!

00:23:07: That's gold in a brand like Bugatti

00:23:11: Absolutely.

00:23:12: And again it strikes me as something all brands could learn from actually, again not just really high-end manufacturers.

00:23:17: but having that kind of synergy between departments is surely always going to result in a better product isn't it?

00:23:23: Helps.

00:23:23: But if I look at modern constellation where that works well with Porsche or also Volkswagen and its essential as chief designer maybe Andreas Mint for Volkswagen I see or saw in my active time how good they are with their CEO, chief marketing officer and development chief.

00:23:51: Only that way you find a bond almost like friendship to march into certain direction.

00:24:02: then be strong about this direction.

00:24:04: uh, disoriented along the way because there are too many doubters on the way.

00:24:11: No if the CEO... If those four people they stick together then I think you can achieve with a fascinating product.

00:24:20: absolutely.

00:24:21: and speaking of being decisive for lot your time at Bugatti was underneath Pieck who is a decisive man.

00:24:27: i don't know as many other people under whom Veyron could have happened.

00:24:31: just what he said about him saying now increase the power by fifty percent this year on astonishing.

00:24:39: Another thing that struck me in your presentation, is all of these cool projects you guys worked on didn't happen?

00:24:45: You know... The Gally Bia, the boats, the six cylinder sports car.

00:24:53: I do a little bit comedy and theatre as well As there's horrible saying in comedy.

00:24:58: They say don't be afraid to kill your babies.

00:25:01: And it basically means whatever idea you have that you think is fantastic, don't get too attached to it because It might not happen and someone else might say no.

00:25:10: You have to accept that and be willing to move on.

00:25:12: Is that important as a designer?

00:25:13: As well put so much effort and passion into these pieces of work But you also have to make peace with the facts That they may not see the light of day.

00:25:21: How do you balance that?

00:25:25: maybe by accepting as A car designer or as a design in general.

00:25:30: then there's part Of your designers life.

00:25:33: I mean, take another field like pharmaceutical.

00:25:37: If you're a passionate doctor or research scientist that research is there... There are so and many things to develop in certain direction.

00:25:46: they will never see the light of day.

00:25:49: And as designer it's same thing.

00:25:51: It also part your program that screw up couple times Or realize a few years later maybe wasn't such good idea.

00:26:01: projects and proposals.

00:26:03: So where we had the feeling in the end, maybe it was a good thing that we didn't do it but we felt at the moment that we had to go there and try something out plus... At least at Bugatti It Was Our Responsibility To Look Left And Right Everywhere In This Whole Field.

00:26:21: What Could Be Done after the Vera, for example.

00:26:25: What could be a possible successor?

00:26:27: And would that replace the Vera?

00:26:29: let's say with a Gallipierre four-door limousine That there will only then be the Gallipiers that have continued further and to stop the Vera or To do a second car Vera plus Vera successor and Gallipiere going parallel.

00:26:45: All this needed to be investigated Plus all of other things you could envision.

00:26:49: Bugatti could've gone But again, it was the strong character of Ferdinand Piech that said okay thank you for trying all these different directions but I think for Bugatti is still a way to keep on going with this sixteen-cylinder engine.

00:27:07: To concentrate one iconic car and one iconic development.

00:27:11: This will pay off in future when we develop the extra ordinary for our precious customers And there are not so many customers around.

00:27:22: Hopefully, hopefully I was allowed to say that.

00:27:24: Three hundred and fifty two four hundred customers worldwide.

00:27:29: I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions to finish the interview That i'm going to ask everyone.

00:27:33: first of all What do you regard as your own greatest strengths?

00:27:37: As a designer...I know what Matty Rematz thinks Your greatest strengths are.

00:27:40: he's praised your pursuit of perfection And your attention To detail in the past which is very much reflected In your work.

00:27:46: well-in your own words..what Do You think Are your biggest Strengths as a Designer?

00:27:55: nurture talent that I was able, and I learned this already when I was responsible for Volkswagen Advanced Design in Barcelona.

00:28:08: For a couple of years it was there also my job to recruit new talents... To come to Sieges at their time and work in the studio.

00:28:17: so i'm used to spot talent from schools or universities and maybe from the third or fourth semester on to support them all the way to their bachelor degree.

00:28:32: Since I learned that there, being in so much contact with schools and unis... ...I continued that even at Bugatti to spot talent….

00:28:43: …and raise them become a strong Bugatti design member And to nurture it to give those people a chance to shine and bring a genius into life, so-to say.

00:29:03: To be able show your qualities for the benefit of the brand.

00:29:09: It's not important that you hang on once.

00:29:13: being fantastic designer at one point it becomes your responsibility I feel to nurture a young team, not just because it has to go obviously.

00:29:23: It needs to pass onto the young talent.

00:29:27: but its another thing to curate young talent and become mature experienced designers that don't get carried away by falling in love with their single line work.

00:29:42: building responsibility towards the brand understanding of the brand creating win-win situations with all the peers that you need to have in the boat, create a successful product.

00:29:56: Well... That leads me beautifully into my final question which is what your go-to piece of advice for young designers or aspiring young designers?

00:30:04: What's the number one thing that you like to tell them?

00:30:08: Be complete nerd about your passion if you want be a car designer.

00:30:14: If we're speaking car designers actually also for project designers.

00:30:18: We just need to soak that up, buy every book or every media outlet you can find in digital days.

00:30:31: There's so much to learn about the digital world today... ...that you can spot and see on my day.

00:30:37: It took a lot of time!

00:30:37: You had to buy all magazines or travel to Geneva where there was fantastic art center outlets to meet those people and look through the window.

00:30:52: You just need to be totally engulfed, totally swimming in that sea of information no matter if other people call you a nerd or not about this... ...you have to look at everyday cars when driving behind your car then look at fenders shapes plan views plan view to cabin and all this, you need to be endlessly investigating.

00:31:23: And at the same time don't remain a nerd.

00:31:27: enjoy life.

00:31:28: You know there is more to a designer's life than just being a car nerd Because that's what an chief designer ultimately looking for A mature person.

00:31:38: come into your team with live experience.

00:31:40: Well-rounded

00:31:41: human beings makes better designers.

00:31:42: Yes

00:31:43: create some humor around it

00:31:45: Achim thankyou so much for your time.

00:31:47: Pleasure.

00:31:48: Thank you so much for listening to this CDE podcast.

00:31:51: Please like and subscribe,