00:00:00: A good designer does not work for the payday.

00:00:02: He works... ...for fun, he works his ego and pride to do next big thing!

00:00:09: The best way is get him to do great projects.

00:00:14: Hello and welcome to the

00:00:16: CDE

00:00:17: Podcast.

00:00:17: Today we're speaking with Luke Donkavolka.

00:00:20: He's chief design officer at Shinde Motor Group.

00:00:27: Doing fine.

00:00:27: It's always great when you are in such an environment, I mean just looking at those cars that... That are fascinating and you think oh i should have had one of those.

00:00:36: This is like our Disneyland isn't it?

00:00:37: Yes absolutely.

00:00:38: And we have some cars down here that you've brought along but they never left Korea.

00:00:41: Is that correct?

00:00:42: Absolutely

00:00:43: this was the first time We've been working a long time.

00:00:49: Is it the right moment?

00:00:50: is there any interest for those cars?

00:00:52: and then with Jens when we discussed about this event, We thought It might be the right one.

00:00:57: I actually have another car that i wanted to bring but... We had a bit of legal issue That we could not show outside Korea so One day will bring that one as well.

00:01:10: Wonderful!

00:01:11: A lot's talk about with Hyundai Group also your previous roles But just at beginning very quickly Where are you from originally?

00:01:18: And how far back can you trace your passion for cars and design.

00:01:22: I am a Belgian citizen, have a Belgium passport but was born in Peru when i grew up in Africa and South America.

00:01:29: so until the age of eighteen had done ten countries my father was diplomat.

00:01:34: So um...I'm basically Citizen Of The World or Nomad.

00:01:44: Life was basically segmented in different countries, a country every year.

00:01:49: Every new school until the age of eighteen where my parents decided it was time for me to start Be Serious About My Future and I went to Belgium first time studied engineering And left immediately after to study design at Switzerland Art Center College Of Design.

00:02:07: Then i joined The Volkswagen Group in January, two made all my career and the different brands of the Volkswagen group from Audi to Bentley Lamborghini Skoda Seat et cetera until ten years ago where I joined the Hyundai Motor Group for a new second life.

00:02:35: We were just talking to Achim from Bugatti about his early life, which was extraordinary.

00:02:41: He was a motorcycle acrobat before he was a car designer and we were talking about how actually you know.

00:02:48: the more life experience You have The better you are at your job especially when the job is car design.

00:02:53: So do you think that having traveled as much?

00:02:55: As you have having lived as many places as you have Having your background as an engineer.

00:02:59: does all that help Your work as a designer in some way?

00:03:03: it does because you learn to survive in every possible environment.

00:03:07: It doesn't matter where I am, most of the time per month and sometimes in a week.

00:03:18: So you have to be able to adapt the situation, but at the same time not adapt too much because you're supposed living in countries where we had four hours of electricity per year, a day excuse me.

00:03:41: And having to go hunting on the weekends, buffalo and then learning to wear shoes every day when you go to Europe and learn that you have to have winter jacket things all those things are enriching your.

00:03:58: they're allowing to develop a certain survival instinct that you need every day at work, I think

00:04:04: in life.

00:04:06: Tell me about your first job as a designer?

00:04:08: You were part of the VW group.

00:04:10: what was that role like and some lessons learned early?

00:04:12: Before that I actually did a long internship, it was supposed to be an internship.

00:04:16: It turned out to be short contract at Peugeot in Paris and then realized... ...it wasn't exactly the automotive environment i wanted.

00:04:26: so went back to finish my studies at ArtCenter And then i was contacted by Audi and joined first as an exterior designer designer at Audi, was involved in motorsport projects but also production products.

00:04:45: My boss became responsible for Skoda design and he basically took me to Prague to a design studio that wasn't existent.

00:04:55: so we first had to build the design studio.

00:05:02: Boy Scout experiences, you have to learn how do everything with a pocket knife.

00:05:07: That was actually very helpful because I could've carried on in the well-organized studio doing wheel covers for long time until the senior designers allow me more.

00:05:18: but I was thrown into cold water and by having to go to company where there were no design studios this experience prepared my future.

00:05:31: having to do everything without any means at anytime, um... To be having to improvise all the time was actually something that helped me a lot.

00:05:41: And super helpful I imagine for your current role as Chief Creative Officer at Ginde Group.

00:05:46: Could you tell us about what day-to-day of Chief Creative officer looks like?

00:05:51: Well it is.. There's one sentence i may say Sorry, I designed for free and get paid for the meetings.

00:06:03: So basically i have to share my time between having ideas being creative And then managing.

00:06:12: To be honest.

00:06:13: Im a very bad lousy manager because as im thinking about something else already Im seeing in next step.

00:06:20: so making my team crazy.

00:06:23: I'm always as soon something seems to be under control, and think about the next step.

00:06:30: But my team has to execute so it's always running behind things.

00:06:37: but first of all where?

00:06:44: Which continent?

00:06:46: last week was US.

00:06:49: this week is Europe UK.

00:06:54: So it's not Europe anymore, but then week after we're going to be Korea.

00:06:59: so... It is always having different time zones and fun enough.

00:07:06: independently where I am i'll end up in video conference with the guys that I just left three days before.

00:07:12: Oh let me stay here for a

00:07:14: second!

00:07:20: My team is actually trying to squeeze in meetings that allow me to give my inputs.

00:07:30: And it doesn't matter if its design input or all the inputs I require to execute, for instance... ...the hospitality concept of the next twenty-four hours or more where we invite VIPs, what do you with the VIP's?

00:07:48: Do they fly in with a helicopter or not.

00:07:51: So this is also part of my team has to have to do and it's all about going back into time because I'm trying to project myself for future design projects.

00:08:09: at the same time i had daily business which pulls me back today three years forward today, then to next year.

00:08:22: Then back two or three years further.

00:08:27: every month I have design presentations for the tree brands in Korea so i have to be updated and give my inputs say no we do it like this... I prefer Model A and Model C. let's do that!

00:08:38: This is a long term.

00:08:41: Then I have to basically go back today and manage things that are related to the next event, which is happening.

00:08:53: For instance we had an event in France two months.

00:09:00: So it's short term, long-term, short-term mid-term all the time and at the same is which continent with whom?

00:09:08: what audience?

00:09:09: who was talking?

00:09:11: And also being diplomatic or non-diplomatic if you're talking about business also different attitudes towards the cultures I'm talking to.

00:09:25: If in Korea, I have to moderate my thinking if with designers that can be more expressive let's say and swear or scream no but it's adapting to different environments, different time zones all of a sudden and it's great, there is never a dull moment.

00:09:47: And again its having to have different caps.

00:09:51: when I'm at Hyundai... ...I am basically looking at Hyundais then i'll have forget about what I saw at Hyundai.. ..and put my KIA cap.... ....and then I will put my Genesis Cup and always kind of like turn the page.

00:10:06: The same thing that if you do project for get about this next one.

00:10:11: don't try rest on your lowers and capitalize what you have done.

00:10:18: great.

00:10:19: It doesn't matter as a designer, it's like having exams every day so...it is very chaotic.

00:10:33: at the same time I need my rest And for instance driving this morning in the night four hours perfect time to think alone in the car and kind of like put things back in place.

00:10:51: So I need those moments, sometimes forget them... My career will be successful today!

00:10:59: I don't need any telephone or email anymore.

00:11:03: We just install a little chip into your brain if you

00:11:05: do all

00:11:06: with thoughts.

00:11:07: It's an interesting thing about being designer.

00:11:09: it is creative role but eventually quite senior, which becomes a more managerial role.

00:11:16: Do you feel like you still get to scratch that creative itch?

00:11:19: Obviously your not sat there sketching all day quite as much as you once were.

00:11:23: do you still feel that you get to kind of creatively satisfy yourself on a regular basis in this world?

00:11:30: I will never be satisfied i mean.

00:11:32: if i was satisfied i think though That would mean my-my...I would not be able to question myself and to do the next step but It is the design part that interests me.

00:11:46: The rest, it's important because I want things to be done right and also... ...I'm expecting a lot of efforts from my team but i cannot let them abandon or support them But its always next idea.

00:12:04: I am enjoying my time when designing something, when sketching.

00:12:12: And always have a sketchbook with me which is Never Leave Me and people got used to see me sketch during meetings knowing that they can listen and sketch.

00:12:24: actually it's better way for me to listen if i sketch.

00:12:27: at the beginning people were thinking about not showing respect or whatever but now there was times where trying to get my sketches after the meeting, but it's... I'm a designer clearly.

00:12:44: That is if i cannot design anymore?

00:12:49: I will stop!

00:12:51: It is only thing that I am good at and the rest of them are trying to be good enough.

00:13:03: bring something I can be useful to the organization.

00:13:06: It's it's the only way um, To see myself in a mirror as well is by bringing new ideas By trying to find new ideas and that's-that's The only thing is if when you know i was had honor of being nominated president two and half years ago And I was worried about about losing the creative aspect.

00:13:38: And I told him, I need to utilize this power to support design It's it's the only reason for me too To accept that because otherwise I don't see myself as a president on the car company.

00:13:56: I'm a car designer and never wanted to be your boss being a designer.

00:14:04: when I was at Lamborghini and i was told to take over design studio with forty-five people said no,i'm not interested.I want to carry on as a

00:14:11: designer.".

00:14:12: At one point they told me now stop playing you have

00:14:16: time

00:14:17: to grow up.

00:14:18: but then I learned how to do that and learn to be creative through my designers and took pride into the achievements of my designs.

00:14:26: it's difficult for me see myself as a designer.

00:14:33: Absolutely, well you've been at Hyundai Group for close to ten years now.

00:14:39: during that time certainly two of the brands Hyundai and Kia have undergone the most extraordinary transformation in terms of brand perception.

00:14:47: how much of that is down to great design do you feel?

00:14:54: It's it's very valid question I think.

00:14:57: first...and its not political answer but there are great designers everywhere.

00:15:04: Generally, if you have a great design and coming to the streets it means two things.

00:15:10: You've got good designers... ...and you're going for good management!

00:15:15: If most of companies fail because they are not supported or given rights responsibility, or the right amount of power.

00:15:41: If you have a good design and if you are having a good management then you will have dynamite.

00:15:52: We had this for the first time after a long career in fighting to get designs on the road.

00:16:03: Or chairman that challenges me.

00:16:07: he's every time you know, we do three projects tree models and He will always taking the more challenging one.

00:16:15: Not them or not the safest one.

00:16:19: That is where I am happy.

00:16:21: why I'm because have management.

00:16:24: a basic says go further Wow move on.

00:16:29: The transformation from Hyundai and Kia would have not happened without that.

00:16:34: From the first date, he told me put design upside down.

00:16:39: do whatever it takes to change the design of Hyundai and KIA And you know It's a license-to-kill is something that you never have normally.

00:16:47: Normally You join a company I joined quite few once and you expect them to do little bit magic.

00:16:56: But don't disturb Here i was told do whatever it takes.

00:17:02: And this is what allowed to first design the processes, designed a team and designed DNA.

00:17:10: so It was three things that allow us to do these.

00:17:13: transformation again.

00:17:15: its never going be finished.

00:17:17: My goal now make sure we have enough firing power.

00:17:22: I'm always concerned of amount projects we are doing burning in my people out because you cannot believe the rhythm of which we're going.

00:17:32: I

00:17:33: mean, this year how many new electric here?

00:17:35: Yes so many models

00:17:36: and there's much more coming and Genesis and Hyundai's.

00:17:42: every month is simple i have a design presentation with management And it's... We are presenting about thirty five models doing just presentation one day every month about two to three projects that go for design trees.

00:18:03: This is never seen before, this is something at the end of year.

00:18:10: we have made about a hundred fifty design models for the tree brands and you basically after every presentation turn on page say okay next and next.

00:18:28: And you cannot disappoint!

00:18:31: We have twenty-one design studios around the world that we have to coordinate, they work in competition... ...and I have to make sure that we select projects that go into competition to be shown recommended by Design to the Chairman.. ..and then he makes a final call….

00:18:54: …and from this moment the channel goes on

00:18:55: production.".

00:18:56: And that's it, the point of room return has been achieved.

00:18:59: So on that day of presentation I have to make sure we've done this right and he is in a position to make the right decision.

00:19:10: Something i've noticed... A lot your cars come out looking very similar to concepts which you can't say for lots of brands.

00:19:19: Is that an indication of a healthy car brand, where as you say the management are enabling and being supportive with you?

00:19:25: From the outside I always wonder when we have concept cars.

00:19:27: And then production cars doesn't look quite the same.

00:19:29: what's happened along the way?

00:19:30: was there been some arguments?

00:19:31: someone has changed their mind.

00:19:32: so is it an indicator or a healthy-car brand in terms...

00:19:36: I hope we can see them!

00:19:38: There one secret which isn´t that secret.

00:19:42: but to achieve that we don't have a division that does show cars.

00:19:50: We don't the golden boys in the secret department, but take care of them off to show cars.

00:19:55: and then do other guys that did the hardware for production?

00:19:59: The same people who design the show car end the production car.

00:20:03: so obviously they try to put the same efforts into production.

00:20:07: And it's always the same thing.

00:20:09: is when you do great project which makes me smile and where I basically will find every single funding necessary to make the show car, even if it was not planned like in steroid.

00:20:29: Yeah... I always tell designers okay great job!

00:20:31: i expect same level of motivation engagement for production project.

00:20:37: And that is secret.

00:20:40: Don't get.

00:20:42: Don't divide your design departments into advanced design, production designs.

00:20:48: That doesn't work.

00:20:49: and then you have the split between show business and end-of-business.

00:20:56: that can all happen.

00:20:57: get people who do their production works to do the showcase.

00:21:01: Is it quite unusual in a car brand not having separation?

00:21:06: And you know, it's also the best way to motivate your people because there is nothing more frustrating than fighting for three years together project on street and fighting every day.

00:21:16: For half a millimeter end here looking at new technologies trying to realize designs then seeing this projects which have nothing do with where say come one that never going make into production.

00:21:33: get to do both, and then they will be motivated forever.

00:21:39: A designer does not... a good designer doesn't work for the payday.

00:21:46: he works for fun.

00:21:47: He works his ego or pride in doing next big thing.

00:21:52: The best way is get him into great projects.

00:21:56: Absolutely In my opinion design has been huge contributor to this rise of Kier & Hyundai in recent years.

00:22:03: but another one electrification and willingness to commit to EVs in a really meaningful way, much earlier than the lot of rival brands did.

00:22:13: Now that we've had some time to live with EV platforms how do you feel about them as a designer?

00:22:18: Because first everyone was saying oh skateboard chassis blank piece of paper... We can make them look completely different!

00:22:24: And I think maybe we're learning now over time their own constraints, don't they?

00:22:29: They you know it's always the same thing.

00:22:31: You never get the level of freedom that you think you will have and basically acquire a new set of parameters.

00:22:38: And as mentioned The skateboard was supposed to liberate us from any possible constraints on how to design the car.

00:22:49: What happened ?

00:22:53: compartment full of stuff, and you're trying to fight to have a bit over front.

00:22:58: And then you end up with the floor pan which means that your car is needs to raise about hundred thirty millimeters in general In order to accommodate the batteries.

00:23:10: so actually It's not a win-win.

00:23:13: To the contrary You have to fight for new challenges and suddenly you'll have to find to make other cars than SUVs because SUV is the best typology of vehicle in order to mask.

00:23:27: Accommodate the battery?

00:23:28: Yeah, exactly.

00:23:29: and now we are forced us say yeah wait a minute.

00:23:33: what about this monoculture of SUVs?

00:23:35: when SUV become commodity What it's going be value for an SUV?

00:23:40: you need do something else.

00:23:42: You need to broaden again And fight against also The fact that designing car like training If you lose your fitness in designing, looking for the best proportion of every single millimeter or orchestrating design elements and proportions.

00:24:03: You are going to loose your qualities as a designer And SUVs have comfort zone.

00:24:13: A good SUV does not rely on incredible proportions.

00:24:18: mask a lot.

00:24:20: If you do a sedan, a coupe and the traditional vehicle to go away from the boring registry You need to be very good at orchestrating masses volumes muscles around wheels overhangs.

00:24:38: this is where Great proportions.

00:24:47: The great proportion is ninety-five percent of the job.

00:24:50: after that it's only makeup and you should not rely on make up, And this where you start suddenly to see cars in a road which have three or four times too many design elements To mask for wrong proportions.

00:25:07: You look at your car and say there are enough design elements to make three cars.

00:25:12: So This is what we need.

00:25:14: to learn More with less.

00:25:16: and if you looked at, you know the cars that we have today.

00:25:21: They all try to do that.

00:25:23: And the genesis G-Nite is a perfect example.

00:25:27: Your eye has to catch up on one design theme and then You have to be able To explain it to anybody who hasn't seen.

00:25:36: what does this car look like?

00:25:38: If you can The design is wrong.

00:25:40: It's not you that it isn't able to describe or not be able to memorise, simply the design isn't good

00:25:45: enough.".

00:25:47: Absolutely!

00:25:47: Of course working for a Korean brand... You don't have the luxury of just making everything in SUV.

00:25:52: because I've been to Korea and they're still very happy with the three box sedan.

00:25:55: Very popular car type there.

00:25:57: so we had to figure out some way of making those electric and nice low at some point in the future too.

00:26:02: I'm conscious of time.

00:26:04: a couple of my favourite cars from your back catalogue and it's hard to choose would be Audi A-II and Lamborghini Murcielago.

00:26:20: Audi A two feels weirdly relevant again because, of course aerodynamic efficiency is more important for car design.

00:26:29: I got to visit the Audi wind tunnel last year And meet the aerodynamics team.

00:26:34: They're like they kind new popular kid in school Like he said.

00:26:38: you know we'd never no one ever used to listen to us at meetings.

00:26:41: now We are like More important Same question as with electrification.

00:26:46: As a designer, what does that mean to you having to think more about aerodynamic efficiency and kind of swoopy shapes?

00:26:54: Does it get in the way of your creativity or is just another thing that you have to work with?

00:26:58: well there's nothing worse than having to play with the same set.

00:27:06: You know, you start knowing tricks and apply the tricks.

00:27:09: And then basically lie to yourself.

00:27:13: So I think that best way is always in a situation or changing environment where there's new inputs coming... ...and people put more relevance on aerodynamics.

00:27:30: Now mistake about aerodynamics, it was supposed to make everything look the same.

00:27:38: And... It's wrong!

00:27:41: You can do an aerodynamic car with different volumes and shapes.

00:27:50: you just have to find a way with the high pressure zones and low-pressure zones.

00:28:00: And obviously, there's a simple way to make it... ...and that is in more complicated ways.

00:28:06: you will have to make compromises but same thing than when people say form follows function.

00:28:13: It is wrong.

00:28:15: Form merges with function The combination of both.

00:28:19: That would work.

00:28:21: if make one more dominance, automatically you will lose on the other side and you have to compensate.

00:28:31: There is a saying even which is quite known that design is too important to live it up to designers.

00:28:39: It shows some companies don't trust their designer's anything they know better.

00:28:44: And this where things go really wrong.

00:28:49: Aerodynamics in theory means forget about the designer.

00:28:53: The designer will try to put some graphics on an aerodynamic soap-like shape and everything would be perfect.

00:29:03: it's a bit like the NASCAR cars where you have basically most of the cars are the same, and you put some stickers onto lights in the grill... And this is what people believed was going to influence the world like this.

00:29:21: We would be decorating perfectly harmonized aerodynamic shapes,

00:29:29: which if we're being completely honest that is my impression of some other car brands in terms of their current design language.

00:29:35: but you rejects the idea that every car's gonna end up being a bar of soap in the future and can make aerodynamics happen more creative ways.

00:29:42: You know that the simple way is actually, The market.

00:29:45: Is there one that tells us?

00:29:46: That this wrong?

00:29:47: because if you do those cars and it can work for One brand in specifically but For instance yes we said okay let's be more Conscious about environment Let me move conscious About the real aerodynamic requirements less listen to our dynamic expects.

00:30:05: We design a car.

00:30:06: then comes a design presentation say yeah But we want rougher SUV.

00:30:11: And you look at yourself and say, what now?

00:30:14: SUV or aerodynamics?

00:30:17: because there is a contradiction.

00:30:20: People want the Malboro Corgoy spirit.

00:30:25: they want adventure flavor into their car.

00:30:27: They want to feel like it can go in Amazon region with your car.

00:30:34: It's an illusion.

00:30:34: but that flavor This isn't compatible.

00:30:39: a very nice wind-sculpted shape.

00:30:43: That doesn't work, so should we be dogmatic about the efficiency or shall we kind of like try to satisfy the taste of the customer?

00:30:59: And this is there's an orchestration to be played but once again it's also about working very hard achieve the right result.

00:31:12: And you know, the Audi A-II is an example as well.

00:31:16: I learned more with the Audi a-II spending hours in the wind tunnel then doing a race car.

00:31:26: i could apply everything that i learned during the Audi on designing a racecar and the Lamborghini's later because I had spent so much time and the Audi A-II was a very difficult car.

00:31:38: Short, small car you know short roof it's... It wasn't easy!

00:31:46: So we have to create certain shape of the car.

00:31:49: And by the way if look at the IONIQ NINE in the Audi E-II there is some reason why they have a certain similarity on the roof line because it's aerodynamic efficiency.

00:31:58: and we found out Ionic Nine could have a little bit of that feeling.

00:32:04: I was going to draw that comparison myself, cause' i think the Ionic nine is really nice example of fact.

00:32:09: you can have very aerodynamic shape low drag coefficient without being bar-of-soak cos that car looks boxy when you get up close in its actually kind of wind shaped.

00:32:18: My friend had an Audi A too.

00:32:20: he had R eight V ten badges on his back Ridiculous.

00:32:24: And then his party trick for people that don't know about cars is he would park it this far out of his parking space with a hand breakdown, and you'd push in the pinky finger because it weighed nothing.

00:32:33: It's fantastic!

00:32:34: I was working on an V-Eight Audi A-II.

00:32:37: what?

00:32:37: That i gave up at the end all time but... V-eights central engine on an Audi A two.

00:32:43: But let's keep that for now.

00:32:45: What could have been?

00:32:47: Okay last couple things.. I love to know if your favorite car from your own back catalogue You know, your latest is your favorite.

00:32:56: But if there's a particular project maybe that you remember fondly even it fits not so much the end result as just the process of making it.

00:33:01: mine is much larger by the way.

00:33:03: thank you for that.

00:33:03: Thank you well It's Not The Latest Projects.

00:33:08: next one because you always believe in all.

00:33:11: every project come with certain level of frustration?

00:33:14: You Know What you wanted to achieve and you look at what do no and say okay but And you know where you lost the battle.

00:33:22: You know where you could have done better there.

00:33:24: You didn't manage in time to find the right solution, so it's basically.

00:33:29: every project comes with a certain amount of feeling that you would've been a better designer.

00:33:38: So always expect next one and I think if you live in your past and you're cultivating what you did previously then this is wrong.

00:33:50: Now, this being said it's not about the design.

00:33:53: It is not about car but experience.

00:33:55: you have and every time I changed company had to adapt another environment which i did when was a kid new schools of year in everything.

00:34:08: But where I Was extremely challenged Is that when I sent Lamborghini to design what became the Musielago?

00:34:21: The company never had one single designer in the company.

00:34:23: They always used to buy their design and then make it possible.

00:34:28: Suddenly I was sent there, do the next car... And i was competing against Gandini which is also my old time heroes.

00:34:41: How could they have been good enough to win that competition?

00:34:44: On top of that he told me listen Lamborghini has to be designed by an Italian, so we'll never say that.

00:34:51: the Belgian designer working for Audi designs.

00:34:54: The next Lamborghini.

00:34:56: So and I said don't care We just want to design a car.

00:34:58: And then later on now i got recognition For the car.

00:35:00: but um The most important thing is That?

00:35:05: II Got adopted By this small family in Sant'Agata Bolognese and This link Is still Today, on the fifth of October they are going to celebrate the twenty years which I created.

00:35:21: It's something where...I still feel emotionally related with this company because i was first designer in that house and it wasn't a contract being paid for design but thank you!

00:35:38: work with the people, find compromises and things like the movable air intakes would have never happened if I had not been there to find a solution.

00:35:50: And this is where it basically... There are some countries that stole my heart and Lamborghini stole mine from their automotive side.

00:36:02: Nevertheless This Is The Past and I cannot live in the past, so always try to find a same degree of emotion for next projects.

00:36:10: Look it's been such pleasure talking with you.

00:36:12: just one final question what is your go-to piece of golden advice for young aspiring car designers when you meet them?

00:36:19: Um...I think that its to open their eyes and realise there are huge amount very talented people In this world And um..there will make difference is dedication and efforts.

00:36:40: So I think everybody can do it with the right level of effort, but you have to live it!

00:36:54: You cannot be a designer considering design as a job... It's alive.

00:36:59: so either you are a designer or choose another job but you cannot consider this is something that will eat you in a positive way, because you won't have single minute without thinking about the next project or what to solve.

00:37:22: It'll be constantly there at your back when you are with family and relatives on holidays so make sure it's going to be your life!

00:37:34: And this is what's going to make the difference once again because talent and social competence are important, but... ...the efforts other ones will pay off.

00:37:43: So it's all a matter of having full dedication for car design.

00:37:48: Thank you for your time Luke!

00:37:49: That was an absolute pleasure!

00:37:51: My pleasure!

00:37:53: Thanks so much!